Verónica Hirsch:

"Welcome to Leading Native Nations. I'm your host Verónica Hirsch. On today's program we are honored to have with us Kristopher Hohag. Kris currently serves as the Vice Chairman of the Bishop Paiute Tribe in Bishop, California. Kris, welcome. Good to have you with us today. I've shared a little bit about who you are but why don't you start by telling us a bit more about yourself."

Kristopher Hohag:

"Thank you, Veronica. I'll start by introducing myself in our language. [Nümü language] What I had said to you was my name is Kristopher Hohag [Nümü language] is my Indian name. I live in Bishop, California. I'm from the Owens Valley of California which is the deepest valley in the country on the eastern side of the Sierras in California and I feel really good to be here with you so thank you. I'm honored to be here."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. Kris, what did I leave out in the brief introduction I provided, I prefaced our conversation?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Right. Well, yeah, this year I currently serve as the Vice Chairman of the Bishop Paiute Tribal Council. That is only a year-to-year title. We have elections every year where if the council and the people want you to remain in a position that'll happen, otherwise we have an option to switch it up. This year I'm also currently the Vice Chairman of the Owens Valley Paiute Shoshone Board of Trustees which is the governing body of three reservations in the Owens Valley–the Bishop Paiute Tribe, the Big Pine Paiute Tribe and the Lone Pine Paiute Shoshone Reservation. I'm an educator by background. I really don't consider myself a politician but that's kind of the role I've been put in so I work with the youth, that's kind of the main thing that got me up to this point in my career I guess you could say. I have a master's in education from the University of Washington in Seattle and I've also worked as a Native American recruiter for the University of Washington recruiting Native students to go to college. And I have a bachelor's in Sociology from the University of California Irvine. So prior to moving home, back to the rez and working with my community, I really worked in higher education. I worked with young people in other communities but I would always come home. So after doing that job up in Washington, in Seattle, I was just...I got the feeling I wanted to be on the community side of things. I'd go into these communities and I would talk with people and try to get their kids motivated to pursue something that meant something to them and that they could give back to their community and I'd dialogue and I'd interact with these mentors of theirs, essentially the point people. I'd say, ‘I want to be like that person. I want to be a person that sees our young people grow up and help them along.' So I ended up moving home to go that route and I essentially work with various entities on the reservation working with youth outreach, convention work, worked for the education center, worked for our health project and also just did volunteer community organizing, helped...was instrumental in co-founding the Bishop Tribal Youth Council which is still in existence today and overall just trying to help provide some healthy opportunities for youth in our communities."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. I'd like to transition now into some questions that have to do with Native nation building. So I'll begin by asking for your opinion. How do you define nation building and what does that mean for the Bishop Paiute Tribe?

Kristopher Hohag:

"Personally I define nation building as anything that it takes to build a healthy, thriving nation and all the various components that make that happen. So whether it's our education department, our economic development department, food sovereignty, our health of our people, medicine, both Western medicine and traditional medicines. Whatever the needs of our people are to be self-sufficient, how do we move towards that to get...to be a healthy, thriving nation. We've had all these generations of surviving but how do we thrive in a healthy way. I think that's what nation building is about."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. Based upon your experience, what are the unique challenges of being a council member of a Native nation?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Good question. The unique challenges of being a council member? Well, your constituents are your family, your relatives. I heard someone say people that maybe didn't like you when you got there aren't going to like you when you get there. But I just think the breadth of information, the breadth of knowledge that you have to either have or acquire. I think it's constantly a learning process. I'm a young council person but I know everyone goes through it, is what...how do we grasp all of these various issues that we have to tackle as nation leaders so whether it's the federal government, learning all the acronyms was...like the first year was just a big education of navigating those corridors of government whether it's state, federal, inter-tribal, building those relationships. They're all unique challenges. I think I kind of come up with a unique challenge every day. Collaborating with our council, it's challenging to have a unified council. I've only been a part of two councils so far but they're very different and having to kind of learn everyone's personalities, everyone's I suppose you could say agenda, interests, priorities and how do we synthesize those and actually get stuff done for the people."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. How do Bishop Paiute Tribe citizens choose their leaders?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"We choose our leaders by popular majority vote. Every summer we have a primary election. People are either self-nominated or nominated by other community members at a nomination meeting and then several weeks go by and we do a primary election and then we do a general election about a month later. And so it just gets narrowed down and whether there's three openings or two openings, the top vote getters then become the next council members and then... We have five council members in Bishop on the tribal council and so among those five we determine the chairman, vice chairman, secretary and at large members."

Verónica Hirsch:

"And how are those offices determined?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Well, unscientifically. It's a mixture between who really wants it and I think the abilities and knowledge that are present within that group of five."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Among that group of five are those who are selected or elected to serve for instance as chairman or vice chairman, is this through consensus?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Yeah. Yeah, at least in my experience. I'm sure there are some times where two people might want so and so and three people want another and then you've got to work it out that way but in the time that I've been on there it has been consensus who the chairman and vice chairman and so on going to be."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. On this topic of leadership and also bearing in mind that leaders themselves enforce law and also help make it, my question is this. How does the Bishop Paiute Tribe make and enforce law?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Well, it goes through the council. If it's a new... We're an ordinance based tribe. We're going to talk about that later I know but essentially if there's a new ordinance that's going to be coming about, there's obviously a need for it. Maybe it's community members have expressed need, maybe it's department heads, influential people who have said, ‘We really need to put in this dog ordinance or this fireworks ordinance or something that is going to benefit and support the safety of building a nation.' And so then we go through a series of public hearings for the community. I believe three is the minimum and we get input from community members who will come and we'll have a meal and just essentially have a public hearing about the issue. And so we kind of narrow down what do people want in there, what do people not want, come back with drafts at the next meetings and we kind of narrow it down. And then once we've gotten to final draft, the council will then pass it into law at a council meeting and it becomes official common law that way.

Verónica Hirsch:

"And how are such laws then enforced?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Well, we have of course the tribal council are the officials of the tribe so we are charged with that and then we do have a tribal police department so they're obviously going to enforce to the extent that they can and that's actually fairly new having a tribal police department on our reservation so we're working through how that is probably done most efficiently. But it's very unscientific how these laws are enforced but I know that for sure. We have a small reservation, it's 877 acres. It's less than one square mile located within essentially the town of Bishop. The city limits are just east of us but we still have neighborhoods to the north, the south and the west and so we have a small little nation surrounded by a town, surrounded by a county, surrounded by a state. And being a PL280 state there are many laws that apply on the reservation, in criminal cases so our tribal court for instance does handle civil issues, civil law issues but I think that's always been a challenge, how the council enforces law on the reservation. I believe that it's been a challenge and it's still something we're working on today."

Verónica Hirsch:

"You mentioned how the Bishop Paiute Tribal Court does handle civil cases and I'd like to ask a question, in the instance of an infraction of a particular ordinance, let's say it would fall within the purview of a civil case. Are there any fines associated perhaps or any other type of repercussions?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"For sure, yeah. Yeah, there could be. Depending on the issue there are fines attached to certain issues and so those are the guidelines that of course our tribal judge would hand down a sentence or a decision."

 

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. Can you discuss how the Bishop Paiute Tribe relates with other tribal communities and governments? What is the relationship between the Bishop Paiute Tribe, the Paiute Shoshone Owens Valley Board of Trustees and the Owens Valley Career Development Center?"

 

Kristopher Hohag:

"Well, as I said before, we are located in the Owens Valley of California. It's a fairly remote part of California because of the geography of the state. The Sierra Nevada Mountains, 14,000 foot peaks right next to us. We are located at the base of the Sierras and so we're somewhat removed from the rest of California although in past years I know there's been strong collaboration with our area but I know we're kind of... That's something I think we're working on right now is getting back into it. We work with other tribes regarding gaming compacts and such and such but oftentimes we're kind of left out there on our own working with other tribes in the valley. You mentioned the Owens Valley Paiute Shoshone Board of Trustees. That predates each of our tribal councils actually so that was...we had a land exchange on our behalf, the 1937 Land Exchange between the Indians of the Owens Valley, the federal government and the City of Los Angeles which essentially gave the City of Los Angeles huge portions of our traditional territory in return for very small reservations in the valley. And so that exchange and then subsequent ordinance that came after that, 1962 Land Ordinance, there's a big gap there but that ordinance essentially set up governance, a very loose governance on each reservation and it...originally the intent was to govern land assignments and help provide housing assistance. So that was a governing document for Bishop, Big Pine and Lone Pine Reservations. There's two other reservations in our area, in the valley which is Fort Independence and Benton but they were established separately with different documents and essentially a slightly different history. And so we have this document, this Board of Trustees, which included five members from...representing Bishop because Bishop is by far the largest reservation in the valley. We have just under 2,000 tribal members and my understanding it's the fifth largest tribe in California but on a very small reservation, less than one square mile. And then Big Pine has a representative on that Board as well as Lone Pine as one representative on the Board of Trustees. And so historically that was...it was put together in that way with five from Bishop, one from Big Pine, one from Lone Pine to represent the size, the populations. That has sense fluctuated a little bit. I think Big Pine's definitely larger and they probably deserve more than one member at this time. But as time unfolded you had...within that ordinance we have Indian committees and those evolved into the tribal councils that we have today for each reservation, those representatives that we elected by each of those respective reservations. And so the Board of Trustees still is in existence today. Our role has...I believe it's fundamentally changed because the capacity of the reservations, the tribal governments have really grown such that each reservation essentially handles their own land assignments and housing situations so the Owens Valley Paiute Shoshone Board of Trustees goes through that only in relation to the Bishop Tribe now. Big Pine and Lone Pine have both pulled out and they have their own ways of going about that. We do too through Bishop but that's just an extra step where we still follow that ordinance and we still go to the Board of Trustees kind of just as a final approval of those land assignment situations. But our role now has mainly transferred into being a governing body for the Owens Valley Career Development Center and that's an organization that is based off the Bishop Reservation but serves every reservation in the valley as well as six counties in California surrounding the Sierra Nevadas on the east and the west side. And so with the Board of Trustees we oversee this large social services, educational organization, the Career Development Center and that runs the third largest tribal TANF program in the country. And so it's a big social services organization helping our tribal families in reservation, urban and non-reservation environments."

 

Verónica Hirsch:

"what do you wish you knew before you first began serving on your nation's elected council?"

 

Kristopher Hohag:

"Well, I think there's a lot of issues but if I could narrow it down to one main one I really wish I had a better grasp on finances, financial management because it's so key to everything that we do at a board level whether it's at the tribe or if it's on the Board of Trustees or any other board that a tribal leader may be called to sit on, I think financial management always comes into the picture and I didn't consider myself to have a strong financial background being an educator, working with facilitating, learning an education, I really didn't invest a ton of my time into learning about maybe business and things like that. Fortunately, I do really like learning so I'm picking it up as I go but I wish...I do wish I had a better grasp on that coming into the position and I really would encourage anyone considering getting involved in tribal leadership to get a healthy understanding of financials on a large level, much larger than personal finances. I'm dealing with amounts of money that I would never deal with as an individual. That's what I would say."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Any other major areas that you wish you knew prior to serving for your nation on the elected council?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Wish I knew. Well, there's a lot. I wish I had more experience, I wish I was older, I wish I was an elder, I wish I had the experience of my ancestors to bring forward to today but that's really the need to engage the community and hope...be accessible to community members. When I first got on council I got a lot of advice, some good, some not so good but everyone wants to give you input. And I think that's valuable to an extent but you've also got to be able to filter it and see what's practical, what's useful and what's applicable. But all in all I feel fairly well prepared, at least in bigger picture thinking of what nation building means, where we should be headed as a tribe. I've been fortunate to have I think pretty strong mentors, not just in my own community but in other communities that have helped me always see that this is a very important thing for all of our people and I kind of figure that eventually I will come back around to working within a role similar to this. But issue specific, I don't know. It kind of is one of those things where it's like dive in and start swimming and you'll figure it out."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. I want to transition now into a discussion regarding some of the content that you already mentioned, ordinance based and also maybe contemplation of constitutions. And with that I'd like to ask or rather state and then ask, the Bishop Paiute Tribe does not possess a written constitution. Can you please describe the tribe's current governing structure and has the current structure been impacted or shaped by certain historical and/or legal circumstances? If so, in what ways?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Well, absolutely historical circumstances as I eluded with the land exchange and our land ordinance that governs the reservations and how we moved from a valley wide governance system to kind of like each reservation has come to stand on their own. I think we have a long way to go still as far as that question's concerned. I think right now the councils...on our reservation...this is definitely not the case on every reservation...so Lone Pine and Big Pine have...Big Pine has a constitution, Lone Pine a general council. Bishop is a little in between. We don't have a written constitution, we're also...it depends on who you ask about general council. We have general council meetings but they don't operate in the same way that they used to generations ago. And so in a lot of ways the council is kind of, for lack of a better term, the judge, jury and executioner as of now. We have to look at the future and how do we want to separate our powers so that we have a healthy governance system for our people moving ahead regardless of who the individuals in office are. And so we do have a tribal court which is intended to be a part of that separation of authority and responsibility. But largely our governance structure really starts and ends with the council making decisions on behalf of the people; putting things into law, making directives and essentially making sure that the needs of the community are met. I wish there were more variables to that but we're moving in that direction."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. How are governance roles and responsibilities defined and delegated within your current framework? You mentioned briefly about general council and the fact that the Bishop Paiute Tribe does in fact have a tribal court. You also mentioned that there is a move, hopefully a steady move towards this exercise of separation of powers within the current framework. Can you provide a bit more detail on this topic?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Well, everyone has a general understanding of the role of council but it's a loose understanding, you know what I mean? So my interpretation could be completely different than the next person's interpretation and maybe the limits and how broad our power, authority, what have you goes really depends on the individual. So we talk about constitution, I think that's really important because it sets very clear rules and definitions behind what we are meant to do so that there's clear understanding between me as the elected official and my citizen who has an expectation of me because a challenge that I find is I have an understanding of my role to help set rules and enforce law without personalities getting in the way, mine or someone else's or preference because of an individual connection but other people have different interpretations of what your role is in there and I think without that being written down, defined for all of us without any questions asked, I think we're always going to have that challenge of interpretation. And what I've found is it's definitely different on this side versus that side. There are certain things where you become privy to so much information as a council member that you don't fully see the picture if you've never been in that role. It's kind of like an iceberg where you think they should be doing all this but you don't realize everything else that's also on their plate. So I would love to see a constitution because as one tribal member that would really provide some clarity as to how I can hold my leaders accountable and as a tribal leader how I can then perform up to what obvious expectations are for everyone else."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. Can you discuss the role of tribal elders and youth within the Bishop Paiute Tribe decision making process?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Yeah, our elders and youth are very important facets of our population of course, in all communities. We revere our elders and we take care of our youth and we want to educate them and show them what it means to be Ní¼í¼mí¼, a Paiute person and send them off to get an education to come back and do what we're doing. We don't have a lot in place within our governance structure. I think how the question is framed is how...within our...we don't have, like I said, there's no ordinance that says the elder's committee is going to advise the council. We have an elder's committee that's for the elder's program and we have...oftentimes we have committees that are formed at the need of a grant or a requirement like that. I would love to see it move towards the direction of where maybe we have an official elder's advisory committee to the council. We do have a Bishop Tribal Youth Council as we talked about before that I did help start and I definitely envision that having a much closer role to the actual tribal council as we move ahead because our youngest tribal members who are just learning how to become leaders themselves, they're going to have insights that the council members are not just ‘cause they're in a different place in their life and same with the elders. They're going to have things that we maybe didn't think of or they're going to have to set us straight and so I would love to see that maybe included in that constitution. But right now it's completely informal. They definitely have a role at meetings and input when they see us around but it's not written down and very defined in that way."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. You've mentioned previously that in your personal opinion a written constitution is necessary and I wonder if you could please expound upon that. Why do you believe a written constitution is necessary?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Well, I just think it would clear out a lot of clutter and confusion and as I said before interpretation. There's always going to be interpretation of course with anything written down but I think it would really help clarify roles, responsibilities, expectations, successes, and failures just like any job description. This is what we expect of you and if you don't do these things because this is in your job, then you're not doing your job properly and you now that as opposed to with those things not written down it's kind of a...it's a little bit of a hit and miss. It depends on the individual, it depends on the makeup of the council and I just think a constitution provides some safeguards for those things. I think it provides some clear, definite rules that hopefully everyone can agree to. We know our playing field at that point. We know the rules, we know what our limits are, a boundary and we know how to do our job better I think in that way and therefore our people can hold us accountable better."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. As of 2014 the Bishop Paiute Tribe is in the process of creating the constitution's committee. Can you please describe how this new committee is being formed and are specific strategies being employed to encourage a wide range of community and family representation on this committee?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Well, the committee is being formed...similar to many of our committees which are based on interest, people signing up, putting in a letter of intent why they want to be on the committee and then the council appoints them and so this is no different in that way other than it's a very specific issue and cause and objective. So people that are going to be on this committee are people who are engaged in the community, who are involved in boards already, who understand the history of the tribe, certain elements of governance, who just have a good understanding of the inner workings of the tribal government and obviously are community people. And we want a good, healthy representation of the community. Not a big reservation, not a huge tribe but big tribe in relation to other tribes and we want it to be so that as many people as possible can have input or can get information. So we know by experience the majority of people don't come to meetings, the majority of people do not show up at public hearings and make their voice known as we would like but if we can make this committee representative of the families on the reservation, maybe certain areas of the reservation, then the intention is that hopefully those committee members can then reach out to their relatives, neighbors and such and such and provide information of what's been happening, where they're going, some updates and they can get input from those people who may not otherwise show up and provide input themselves. So that's the intention. We have...I don't know if we have appointed officials but we know who's going to be on that committee. We did have a sign up very recently and it's quality people who've had history within the tribe and have an understanding. I think it's going to be good. In a small community you tend to get a small population of that group that is involved in almost everything. So I think we have a knowledgeable group of people that are going to really help us move forward. That's our goal. Hopefully...the plan is by...in the next six months so we'll see what happens. It's now on record."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. On this topic of how to encourage or foster representation of various areas within the Bishop Paiute Tribe's community to participate on this constitutions committee, are there specific strategies being employed to engage or to encourage participation? Has it been something that's been more organic in process or has there been a discussion of how or who to approach, to encourage, to foster this type of engagement with the intent of having broad representation on this committee?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Well, I don't know if we have any certain strategies. I'm sure we're going to move forward was we've done things up to the point with certain committees and then there's definitely going to be some new ideas infused. We have yet to talk about any like best practices type of situation. I think maybe once again I would love to see that actually. If anyone out there has some best practices on how to make a committee more efficient and creative I would love to hear but I think it'll go the direction of the individuals. One of my strengths I feel like is facilitation of dialogue, of issues. With my background as a teacher I always felt like facilitating people moving in a common direction is what I hope to do. I would hope to get involved in that way but we'll get them together, we'll educate them a little bit. We may use some Native Nations Institute resources to help them get a broader understanding of what constitutions are about, maybe what other tribes are doing and really just have conversations, bring them up to speed, make sure we're all on the same page, see what we have maybe from our previous drafts and try to put it together in something that the people will see fit to pass in another election and then it'll become another document that guides us."

Verónica Hirsch:

"You mentioned the existence of previous drafts. Are those previous drafts of a constitution for the Bishop Paiute Tribe? Can you provide a bit of back story on those previous drafts?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"I don't know a whole lot about them to be honest with you. I think there's at least two drafts from previous years. Depending on who you talk to there's been anywhere from two committees to 10 committees over the years and with decades. The most recent one was in the mid-2000s, the first decades of 2000s and that one actually went to a vote and was voted down. In conversations with my council it sounds like it's a good constitution. I think there's certain elements within or maybe we're taking off too big of a bite with something that's going to go to a vote. For instance, if we were going to write a constitution and incorporate all of our existing ordinances or maybe try to bring in some laws, a lot of these things each individual issue typically goes for vote so people are used to tackling it in little pieces. And so I think some of those first attempts have kind of been in essence biting off more than people were able or willing to chew. And so part of the strategy moving forward is how do we make it clearer, more digestible for the voter so they make an informed, educated decision on this. I think the direction we're going to go...as I said, we have ordinances so that probably won't be included, maybe peripherally that will come under it. But I think the drafts are going to be heavily relied upon. There may not need to be huge changes but just some strategic changes that like I said make it more digestible and so that we can move forward. We can always tweak things here and there. We can always make amendments but something that the people can comprehend and agree is really important. We don't want it to be so convoluted that 99 percent of it's great but one percent is really iffy and that's going to get it voted down. So we'll use it to inform the ways that we move forward with it, those drafts."

Verónica Hirsch:

"From your perspective, what means could be used to convey the drafted or the proposed constitution's content to Bishop Paiute tribal citizens in a way that will be clear, will be concise and will foster a greater understanding of that content?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"What means could be used? Well, I don't know if we're going to do this but we could obviously mail it out to every community member, every household. Then they would have it. The challenge then is how do we get active participation and working with that draft of getting people's input and for that we would definitely have to call a community meeting similar to things we've done in the past, have drafts on hand for people ready to edit at will and then have a dialogue as a group and then come back together and maybe do several of those and just kind of whittle it down to the core essence of what we're trying to get at and essentially a working committee, that's what this will be. And we'll do a lot of that and I foresee the committee then having larger community wide meetings to then update on what some of those changes are but I think it's anticipated and expected that when we work on something of this magnitude, it's a smaller group of people that are working on the document that's going to affect everyone and that's just the way things are. So I think the committee is going to be obviously the driving force in the action, in the work. But people will be invited to definitely provide their input as we go along. It's not going to be an overnight process but we're going to get on it and really stay on it, get going in the next month and hopefully have regular, regular meetings and updates for people to be involved."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Can you discuss key issues that in your opinion will be addressed by the perspective Bishop Paiute Tribe constitution?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Yeah, I think the big one is going from two year terms which we currently have for our tribal council members to four year terms so effectively doubling our time in office and making sure that there's a removal clause. I know that's really important to our tribal members in case a council member is not performing up to par or is abusing their authority. We really need to have that. I don't think it's controversial at all but it's very key and I think it's probably the single most important element that's going to be in there other than like I said the defined roles and responsibilities. Eluding to a previous question we had maybe it's one of the challenges to previously passing was...I think 99 percent of it could be great, fine and dandy but we had something where we were fundamentally changing the name of the tribe and I think that's probably what could have been a big reason why it changed, trying to go back to our traditional name so currently we're the Bishop Paiute Tribe. Well, culturally, historically Bishop has nothing to do with the people. Paiute is essentially...it's not our word. I don't know where it came from, couldn't tell you that. We call ourselves Ní¼í¼mí¼ and all Paiutes essentially have a variation of Ní¼í¼mí¼. So our constitution that didn't pass several years back was going to redefine on our terms who the people are in our words. But I think there's major outreach and education that needs to go into something like that. It is a paradigm shift in thinking about yourself, your identity and who you are, especially if you've been raised your whole life like, ‘I'm a Bishop Paiute Indian, Bishop Paiute tribal member.' If that doesn't exist anymore, that's a pretty big thing I think. I think it's a good thing with the proper education. I would love to see it happen as we reclaim our identity and re-indigenize our terminology within our government and beyond. I'm a huge proponent for that type of thing because I think identity is super key to our youth and our existence as tribal nations. But that takes I think serious educational efforts to remind people why it matters, the positive benefits they're going to see in the future and maybe at the same time say, ‘This is how it's been instrumental up to this point, why we should change it.' Maybe it's a strength based change. So I think there's just more fundamental outreach and education that needs to go in something like that because it's wonderful. I would love to do that because I...it's empowering to learn on your terms from your language, from your ancestors from your land, this is who I am but on the federal register it says something different. We have to correct those type of things about who we are and we're in the process and a lot of tribes are still in that boat. Some are changing as we speak, some have done it recently and maybe some will in the future so I think we can go in that direction but that was probably a pretty major obstacle to getting it passed the first time around."

Kristopher Hohag:

"Successes and challenges of our current governance structure. Well, there have been successes over the years I just...it's...without a clear cut definition of roles and responsibilities it really kind of does this pendulum swing of we'll have some very good years of economic development and building up maybe our education system, our housing, our services for our tribal members and then there'll be years where it's not a whole lot. And so some of the...the stability I think is a big challenge; stability of the government, stability of our economic development to support our nation. Those are definitely challenges that I see I've been able...just being...within my role now and being able to take a good look at the whole tribe and all the departments and understanding that consistency is really important and so that's why I think these four year terms are really going to help provide some stability to that. Not to say that those have been just challenges all the time. We have some very successful organizations. The Bishop Education Center was the first Indian education center in California as part of a...I can't remember specifically but Senate bill that essentially funded all of the first Indian education centers. We were the first ones to get that and we had a traditional health board of tribal elders in our area who were very instrumental in forming health programs over the years that then informed California Rural Indian Board, that then informed...you've got Toiyabe Indian Health Project which is...I think prior it was like a tri-county type something or other but essentially serves all the Indian communities on the east side of the Sierras in California. And so that's a very good thing that's come about through our governance over the years and the Owens Valley Career Development Center. That provides huge much needed services to families in our areas educationally and just supportive services and just getting by and helping them get careers and educated so that they can then go out and be productive members of society and our community. So I think there's been some really big successes over the years but there's been an ongoing host of challenges that I think really the root cause is the instability of the governance and hopefully we'll be able to address that pretty soon here."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Can you discuss the general council's efficacy? You mentioned it before. What are the successes of the general council, past successes and what are some of the potential pitfalls that maybe the general council going forward in your opinion could do well to avoid?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"I don't necessarily feel like I'm the best person to answer that. Yeah. I wish I was 40, 50 years older. I would have a much better answer for you. Because yeah, I don't think... In my lifetime general council hasn't really had quite the influence that it used to have as far as big decisions of the tribe. Certain issues will go to vote and then obviously that comes down to general council decision. But the majority of the business that takes place on the reservation comes to council and so general council has informal input on a lot of things and then when things go to vote they obviously have official approval or denial but some of those things I think are real historical in nature and I wouldn't be the best person to say this but what happened to the good and the bad and the ugly. My grandpa would have some stories of that."

Verónica Hirsch:

"In your opinion does the Bishop Paiute Tribe utilize certain strategies to facilitate tribal citizen engagement whether at the general council level, at the constitutions committee level that we've already discussed or in some other capacity, perhaps in an informal environment?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Well, yeah, council members are very accessible. We're around and living in the community like anyone else so informally all the time. Informally we're constantly getting input. A little more formally we have public hearings on...usually on issue specific things if we're going to be passing anything or there's things just to update people on we'll do multiple public hearings either on week nights or if it's an extra large issue we'll do week days...weekends I mean. We do have periodic general council meetings we call them but in recent times they really haven't been...there have been action items on the agenda, more informational but there'll be maybe a whole day or whole morning on a Saturday. The committees as we touched upon a little bit, those are ways for people to get engaged."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Can you discuss Bishop Paiute Tribe efforts at either including language within the yet to be created tribal constitution and/or emphasizing language, language revitalization as necessary for nation building?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Yeah, I think it's vital when we're talking about nation building to incorporate your language as much as possible ‘cause it is one of those characteristics that we cite that makes us a nation is we have a very distinct culture, language, geography so I think language is key to that. In the state that our languages are in nationally, internationally, globally, it becomes an issue that I think we always have to think about. From a tribal perspect...I speak on what I feel personally and what I would like to see from a tribal perspective, I do see us prioritizing it right now. It hasn't always been that way. I think there's been times of real strong activity with regards to language revitalization and there's been times of dormancy. But I've certainly seen since I've been on...in my role been bringing it up and it's become more of an issue. I'm glad to see that. I don't take credit for that but I'm glad it's happening and I get to witness it. We do have a language nest getting started as we speak but sometimes the bureaucracy that we create gets in the way of these things getting done when they're just...it's not about rules, it's about this needs to happen. We need people to be talking to each other, we need people to be speaking to our babies so that they're digesting and inputting it. It has nothing to do with rules. You want to create parameters that are going to keep it safe and any liabilities in a situation but it shouldn't get in the way of the issue at hand. So I'm really glad to see we actually have a community member who is just doing it and we're going to support him any way that we can because... We have a language program that operates under the Owens Valley Career Development Center and so they do focus on Paiute language of the Owens Valley in our area and they also work on other languages in other regions that we serve there but locally... I used to work for the language program. I was an intern while I was in college and then I did study language revitalization when I was at my grad school, studied what other people are doing to do that and we've done great work in terms of documentation and archiving. So we have a lot of good stuff to work with, working with some of our fluent first language speakers before they had passed that were active and willing to document so we've got some really good archives in that way and now it's turning the page and how do we get it into the minds and hearts of our babies so that they're going to help us bring it back. There's a very clear distinction between adults trying to learn it and babies trying to learn it. There's just two different minds at work. And when adults are making those decisions, sometimes it's harder because there's an intimidation factor if you don't speak it. My mom, my parents, it's not...their generation lost it. They didn't lose it but it wasn't passed to them for all these factors that many of us are aware of and therefore it didn't come to me either but if we remind people why it matters and I think we really can engage people that this is as important an issue as anything that we face is our identity's at stake, our connection to our land, our connection to our ancestor's spirits, spiritual things, the language holds so much for us and I think it should be at the forefront of everything that we do as a nation and being that so few of us do speak it's really an ongoing challenge. We try to bring in speakers to make the language available and open and accessible so as many people can hear it as possible. At council meetings we have someone do the prayer in the language. That's ideal. We do have classes in the community both for people who are working and people that aren't working. We have language teachers going into our Head Start and just in the last year or two our daycare and our education centers are really ramping up their use of the language. Very evident, I can see it, just night and day. And the kids, kids are just soaking it up. I think...my personal feeling is it's one of those things that it...and just in my community maybe because we haven't gotten to the stage of certain communities at revitalizing it. I think it's going to happen, it's just a matter of time. We've got to keep plugging away but it really takes some massive commitment to...not only from an individual perspective of speaking if you only know a word or only know a sentence or can only introduce yourself, be proud of that much and try to learn more and share it as much as possible with the children, with each other. It's just...it's cool to see people even just greeting themselves a lot more commonly as of late and for non-natives to hear it. When they realize that we still have that, that people are still speaking it ‘cause a lot of times they hear it so infrequently or everything is English that they just assume that's a gone part of who we are. We need to remind them, no, it's still a very important part of who we are and in fact it's an element of who we are that's getting stronger and will continue to get stronger so get used to it. There's going to be some signs around here. You're going to have to start to learn Paiute. You are in Paiute Country even if our reservation is only 877 acres. I think that's something that I see. As a leader of my nation I think we have to think beyond the borders of our nation sometimes because our traditional homeland is so vast and yet our jurisdiction is so small, well, I realize that my jurisdiction is only this big but I can't have my mind only within this small box. It's so limited. We go to Hawaii, everyone says Aloha whether you're native Hawaiian or not. It's the language of the land and I feel the same way about our areas. I think people should learn the language in the land that they're at and show respect for that and I think we as people, I hope that's a prideful effect on us and our children."

Verónica Hirsch:

"You've mentioned briefly the challenges of boundaries and I was wondering if you could provide your opinion about the challenges for a Bishop Paiute tribal member who is living away from the community who may want to be very much engaged within the Bishop Paiute Tribe's local process, specifically with regard to voting. In that scenario I've described, what challenges to exercising his or her right to vote in tribal elections might that person encounter?"

Kristopher Hohag:

Yeah, I think it's a really important issue. I have some personal experience just having lived away from the community and I know a lot of people are in the thick of, as we speak. In our community, based upon our enrollment ordinance you have to live on or near the reservation in very prescribed areas in order to be...have the privilege to vote about anything–the tribal leaders, any issue at hand and the exception is if somebody's in college at a school or in the military. So that leaves a lot of people out. That leaves a lot of people who...we have a lot of tribal members but many of them are not authorized to vote under those exceptions. Maybe it was economic purposes that sent them away which totally understandable in our area being as secluded as it is and away from major industry and so...or college students that go away and find a career that they couldn't pass up and they're building their skills with the intention of bringing it home to our people to help us build our nation. But, in the meantime they have no say at home. Just having been in that scenario and knowing numerous, actually a good amount of people today that are in that way, I think it's really important that we keep them engaged on a regular basis. To me as we chatted about, to be off the reservation doesn't make you any less who you are. For me to be in Seattle or to be in New York doesn't make me any less Ní¼í¼mí¼ or Paiute from this community. I will always be a part of that community. I will always have the well-being of that community...our community in my heart and what I'm trying to do but I think it's really important to facilitate that engagement still because those are our minds, those are hearts of our people that are going to be contributing to the innovation that we need today to be a thriving nation. We talked...is nation building is a healthy thriving, nation...building a healthy, thriving nation, then each one of us is a key element to that and we have...if we have people out getting their PhDs and their master's degrees and they work in the university, well, you can vote as long as you're a student but once you start working that job, sorry. I think we really should emphasize keeping them engaged because not to say that the people living at home on the reservation don't have a lot of valuable input as well but I think to make the most of our citizens or to make the most of our nation we need to engage all of our citizens to the greatest extent possible and keep them engaged and along with that continue to do our best to facilitate their return back home when it makes sense because currently it kind of...we might force you to return home if you want bad enough to participate, to have some input, know who your tribal leaders are and the issues at hand, to get some land, to get a house, you better get home. Never mind all those other goals you had out there, you better get home because you don't have those privileges if you're out there in the world. I would like to see us find a balance there where we continue to encourage our citizens to succeed at their potential and shoot for their goals and dreams and acquire this expertise and experience out there that's going to benefit us all in the end. If we could facilitate not only their education ‘cause we certainly do our best...I think probably all tribes do their best to educate their kids in one way or another that makes sense to them. Sometimes that's sending them away to college. Sometimes it's not. That's why tribal colleges are so important if they're located within a nation's territory and is grounded in their educational values. I would love to see that in our area as well because for us it's necessary to go to...to leave if... To go to a four year university I can't stay home. It's not possible. Have to go at least four to five hours away and then if you want to go further, you've got to go further. So I would love to see more dialogue around facilitating their return so that they can contribute to the nation as a whole. I think that only benefits us all. As a tribal member who's been in that position at one time and may be in that position again in the future, for myself and for my children, you want them connected back home and I think the tribal government should keep that in mind and do our best to facilitate that connection to the greatest extent possible."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. From your personal perspective could you provide some suggestions for engaging those Bishop Paiute tribal citizens who for multiple reasons have or currently live away from the community, how to both encourage their return home to the Bishop Paiute Tribe homelands and also how they can, to whatever degree you believe appropriate in your opinion, remain engaged within Bishop Paiute tribal election processes?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"Yeah, I think some easy things to start with would be get them on the mailing list, allow them to receive every newsletter, every information packet that other tribal members receive just so that they're aware. I think it should be accessible to them to receive language materials or anything that's connected back home to the identity of who we are. Maybe that's language CDs, something that makes them build that connection while they're away, don't let that connection get any stronger or any weaker, let's build that connection so that when they come home they feel a part of the community and they're eager to not only contribute but to learn more rather than maybe they feel like an outsider. I don't know that that's going to be the case with anyone but let's work towards strengthening that connection and that tie. Perhaps we have...some tribes will have like an annual election where everyone...everyone's eligible but you've got to make it home and then you can vote. That's an option. I think that's a potential option as long as everyone's aware of it. Make sure you know where they're at. If they're a tribal member, we have their address, let's keep them informed of the happenings and say, ‘If this is important to you, this is when it's happening and you are welcome to be a part of it and provide some input but it's happening here.' So that's an option I think. And then many things that are issue specific. I think mail is just fine. I think a lot of people just appreciate being connected and knowing what's going on from the government as opposed to, ‘I've got to call home and see what the issues are.' That's how we do it now but I think it would go a long way to say, ‘Hey, you're one of our citizens, we know you're out there in the world but we know this is your home and so these are the things we're dealing with. What's your opinion? How can you support this and add to the dialogue to help us become stronger?' I don't think that hurts us in any way myself."

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. In a previous conversation you mentioned positive, inter-governmental working relationships. You've also mentioned some of the current relationship that the Bishop Paiute Tribe has with the Owens Valley Career Development Center as well as the Owens...excuse me, the Paiute Shoshone Owens Valley Board of Trustees. I wonder if you might also provide a bit more information on the positive relationship that the Bishop Paiute Tribe has cultivated with the Bureau of Land Management."

Kristopher Hohag:

"Yeah, definitely. In just my limited time in tribal politics I've learned and come to understand that there's a lot of challenges with tribes working with federal agencies, state agencies and it's not always a real healthy relationship to say the least and I think we have a fairly healthy relationship at least with our area offices of the Bureau of Land Management and the United States Forest Service. On our small reservation we do have an area that's set aside for economic development that is occupied by the BLM and Forest Service. They have their area office buildings on our reservation as well as the California Department of Motor Vehicles office is located on our reservation. These are developments in the last 10 years and I think they've been really positive in terms of facilitating regular dialogue. We have quarterly meetings with the BLM and the Forest Service which is facilitated by our THPO which is the Tribal Historic Preservation Officer and that person has regular dialogue with them about issues that they're working on. And so I think those regular consultation prove to be really valuable and at least locally the people...the staff are very mindful of how their work is impacted by the tribe's and vice versa. And so there's just a willingness to reach out and say, ‘Okay, this is what we've got going on. Is this okay?' or ‘Do you guys have any input about this or that?' So I think that's a really good thing and a lot of it is personality based. I think sometimes maybe you get a field director in there that, ‘My way or the highway.' That happens. But right now I think we're in a very...we have a positive, healthy relationship with those particular federal agencies and that's really key for us because it's such a small reservation and in our particular area much of the land is public lands so they have the jurisdiction over a lot of that area. For instance, one of the outcomes of this positive relation is we do have a memorandum of understanding with the BLM for co-management of I believe about 70,000 acres just north of the reservation which is...they call it volcanic table lands and what it is, it's essentially traditional hunting territory of our people and at one point it was slated to be the reservation of our valley prior to the land exchange which was like 60,000 acres for the reservations. No, 3,000 acres for the reservations. That was one of those strokes of the pen that really affected our present status. But I think to be in that collaborative agreement, to have that MOU about co-management is really a good thing moving forward and we're still pretty early on in that relationship of co-management. I believe it's only been about two years and so we still have a lot of room to grow within that and hopefully we can get our tribal members out there helping them to do...fulfill their responsibility of those lands but we as a tribe take some of that responsibility as well."

Verónica Hirsch:

"In your opinion how important or appropriate is it to include Bishop Paiute Tribe Indigenous language within government documents or to employ it within the context of general council and tribal council?"

Kristopher Hohag:

"My opinion is it's vitally important. I think it is. Some may say it's just semantics and maybe it's just a gesture, it's symbolic and that's true too but I think it's an important symbol. I think it's important to say, ‘This is who we are, this is our intentions and this is how we present ourselves. This is our language.' As you eluded to, ‘These are our responsibilities as Indigenous peoples of this land,' and I think those should preface all of our government documents, remind people. If people weren't aware of it, maybe it's new to somebody, ‘Oh, this isn't your standard government document. There's something very unique about this. This is a sovereign nation with its own language, with its own customs, with its own history and belief system.' Being that so many of those things are embedded within our language, our cultural world view, I think it's vital that it be included in our government documents as well however symbolic or practical. I kind of think that's irrelevant. Obviously there's a spectrum of how practical it is depending on the community and how many people actually speak and understand their language but coming from a government point of view I think it should just be clear cut and dry include your language in that.

Verónica Hirsch:

"Thank you. That's all the time we have on today's episode of Leading Native Nations. To learn more about Leading Native Nations, please visit NNI's Indigenous Governance Database website, which can be found at igovdatabase.com. Thank you for joining us."